GTalk Discussion:-> Life, homosexuality, reigion, science,.. what not!

The transcript of the Gtalk chat i had with Gokul a.k.a Black Light. We have this kind of arguments regularly and i thought this one, as a representative, needs to be blogged so that a few interested readers can go through the entire length and comment -one possible honest comment i expect is "Well. You two prove that argument is just an exchange of ignorance!". One thing with the chat transcripts is that there are a lot of spelling mistakes and occasional grammatical slips. To hell with grammar and spelling.! Read it along with those so that the essence is unspoilt!
(Don't worry if you don't understand the initial exchanges. Happy journey!)

BLACK: hi

me: hi im posting it as a new topic

typing

BLACK: deleted?

ok.. go on

9:15 PM me: right

ten mins

BLACK: so you can delete, post but cant edit!

k

me: ya. weird

BLACK: i can edit i guess

9:19 PM me: i have explained my idea. about 6, 7 lines

so just send ur idea too

ill add it

BLACK: you know my ideas... add it

9:20 PM me: No.. There should be no discrepancies like the one u did

BLACK: infact i have said it a 1000 times

ipost my views feom that

9:21 PM me: there?

BLACK: yes

me: suddenly went offline?

BLACK: invisible aagitaen.. he h eh

me: ok ill send u the new draft. you replace the present post with that expanding upon ur idea

BLACK: okie

send

9:24 PM me: sent

to ur email

9:25 PM BLACK: no editingrequired i guess

is that okay for you

me: expand upon ur view of love if needed

I just made clear my view, which was wrongly stated

I didn't say love has sex at its base

9:26 PM BLACK: i'll add seeing others interpretation

me: roger

BLACK: love has sex at its base now... you claimed it

me: when?

9:27 PM read my part carefully

BLACK: ;love' nowadays... remember!?

me: That doesn't mean Love always has sex at its base

9:28 PM BLACK: the word is too general i guess

me: Many people love sex doesn't mean love is constrained to sex alone

BLACK: first we need to draw lines exactly

its too common a word like faith

9:29 PM but classify... you get religion, god, science.... blimey

me: I think the definition of " a mad inexplicable permanent attraction towards some X" is ok. Kind of rigorous

9:30 PM BLACK: rigorous... but too generous

me: Gandhi loved Truth. Einstein loved nature and the rigid laws it followed.

9:31 PM It has to be general. Just because a majority Love persons from the opp.sex doesnt mean Love's definition shd be changed

9:32 PM BLACK: not asking for renaming but for inter classification

else that word cn be mis leading

me: ya. lets wait for others' views on this

post pannittaya?

9:33 PM BLACK: posted ;)

me: yup saw

9:34 PM BLACK: any correction?

cat online

me: how do u say that

invisible?

BLACK: he is in top of my list

more than that he replied ;)

9:35 PM *smile

err

me: oh.. vanthuttana

BLACK: i am still amused about homosexual theories

9:36 PM have you watched 12 angry men film

me: Life's a fucking freak. Homosexuality is one of the examples

No.. you did?

9:37 PM BLACK: is life a fucking freak or we just end up fucking as we cant dig out enough facts

yep... very good film

me: facts just help you make out the laws

Homo pathiya?

BLACK: no... its about how men yiel to their doubts

9:38 PM me: Life sees to that it breaks any convention built upon it

BLACK: we form life

not the other way round

me: ada i think i should add this to my orkut prifile status

we aren't independent of the laws sir

BLACK: which one?

9:39 PM me: Life sees to that it breaks any convention built upon it

mathavanga lines ellam use panrathilla

BLACK: we made laws & they have boundaries upon which they fail

poi

me: we dont make laws. We observe them

BLACK: you used sujatha's

9:40 PM no.. we name our observations as laws to aid our future experiments

me: not without mentioning it :D

BLACK: they dont wait for your credits

me: No. Newton didn't ask nature to use F=ma. Einstein didn't ask her to warp the space around matter and energy

They were all observations

9:41 PM BLACK: they didnt ask it... but they observed

thts wat i am saying too... you observe & note that your observations can be wrong or incomplete

me: right

BLACK: i can be wrong

9:42 PM you can be too

me: Not wrong. They are confined to limits. Need to be refined.

9:43 PM BLACK: refined till what? we dont know the limit

me: ya. we don't know. that doesnt mean the lives of all those men who worked sincerely for it due to their Love for it were flawed.

9:44 PM ok whats ur stand on homosexuality?

9:45 PM BLACK: they arent flawed nor their love went worthless (but many went unnoticed though!) i just doubt whether we have a doubtless conclusion..

9:46 PM homosexuality exists & that cant be denied...

9:47 PM me: Its like getting to the roots of an infinitely giant tree. Some might find a few branches. Then another will come and say that the braches found out till now actually originated from a bigger node. This will continue. A parent branch will be found and the journey towards the roots will continue

Thats not a stand. Its a fact

9:48 PM i asked abt ur stand

BLACK: my stand is that i dont encourage it.. it doesnt solve any purpose

9:49 PM now dont say that nothing exists for a purpose

me: The journey is guided by an unfaltering faith that several branches found till now, though appear unrelated and chaotic, will one day be found to originate from the same node.

9:50 PM There is no absolute purpose. It's just our superiority complex that makes us say so.

BLACK: i can live only for this minute

its our superiority cmplx makes us think that we are on the right path & tht we would find the parent node.

;)

9:51 PM me: It'd really be irritating to a guy seriously running behind his ladylove that there is no purpose achieved by this act of his'.

9:52 PM BLACK: it gives him pleasure... many run behind gods.. wats the purpose?

me: No. It's their strong faith in her. Not superiority complex

exactly. Nothing

BLACK: no.. they think that god is partial to them.. for instance they depicted god so that he look like men

9:53 PM the theory is simple

men feel thta they are next to god in this universe

me: Im not talking about religious people. Physicists rather

9:54 PM BLACK: physics & religion are almost same thing travelling in 2 diffrnt paths

me: "men feel thta they are next to god in this universe" How does that prove that life has a purpose?

BLACK: same insanity... same never ending search & faith.. all the same

me: There is a difference. One rebukes asking doubts. The other is completely based on doubts.

9:55 PM So insanity is life's purpose?

BLACK: i dont know whether it has a purpose... but i have a doubt tht it might have... you cant deny

the path is different but the search is almost the same

9:56 PM be it origin of living things or extra terrestrial things

me: "be it origin of living things or extra terrestrial things" wat?

:O

9:57 PM BLACK: yes... many religions try to define the origin of lide... for instance the bible

*life

me: They invent stupid theories

Physics frankly agrees "I don't know"

BLACK: dont say that all scientific theories are factual

9:58 PM me: Once a experimental fact negates a theory, its thrown out. Religion try to sink in an existing theory and brush off facts against it

BLACK: thts the problem... physics says i dont know, but i will for sure... religion says that i know enough... both makes not much diff

9:59 PM why dont ants observe man & write theories... or do they do so?

me: Religion is arrogant and ignorant. Science is truthful doubtful .

BLACK: truthfull ?

me: ya

why?

10:00 PM BLACK: its doubtful for sure but the extent of truth is undefined

infact science too is arogant in a way.. you throw a theory once it fails an expt..

10:01 PM me: A theory has inherent limitations. When it fails even within the specified limts, it is thrown out

10:02 PM Of course; Do you want theories to be preserved and facts to be thrown out?

BLACK: again limits... do you notice

me: yes. As i said its a journey to find the roots. It can never end

10:03 PM BLACK: we are bound to limits.... pathetically we fail even to predict within our limits... finding the roots is not a possibility at all then

me: It's the journey that matters. Not the destiny

BLACK: i am not a pessimist... but still i dont understand why men thinks that they are the end of evolution!

10:04 PM me: "God doesn't want you to win. He wants you to try" - Mother Teresa

cha enna line la

BLACK: if you are running in the wrong track, you;ll never reach the desti... i think we are runnin in circles

nice line... i love her a lot ;_)

me: One line la life ap pathi enna superb aana comment

10:05 PM BLACK: ;)

me: Truth reveals itself to the keen seeker. So It will correct you.

BLACK: you need to note the environment in which she said it

10:06 PM "Truth reveals itself to the keen seeker. So It will correct you." thts funny

me: It holds good for everything. Wonderful generalization. Its as powerful a theory about Life as GR is about reference frames

Why is it funny?

BLACK: truth is everywher, but it is us who has the limits & imperrfections

10:07 PM keen seeker... ha ha ha

me: We can break limits and be perfect. We choose not to

why?

keen seeker la enna comedy

10:08 PM BLACK: not that we chose not to... but i think it isnt necessary... we can live like tht dumb apes

2000 years of keen seekers the earth has seen... but none can say what earth is!

me: Nothing is absolutely necessary.

10:09 PM BLACK: so we are falling into a line

me: We are approaching the roots. We didn;t sit idle for all those 200 uears

I have always been saying there is no purpose. You denied it

10:10 PM 2000

BLACK: science, religion, love, uh homosexuality, etc... can entertain our era... but nothing more

me: Entertain? bad usage of word!

BLACK: i meanwat i said

10:11 PM ENTERTAIN

or say LUST

me: Love!

BLACK: now i go mute.. i dont doubt it.

10:12 PM BTW, i never said tht we dont have purpose... i doubt whether we are not practsing our purpose

or even unaware of it

me: oh.. Whats our purpose?

BLACK: unaware of it

10:13 PM would you say newton loved his works?

me: There can be no absolute purpose for a system comprising of entities having autonomy yet unaware of their purpose.

10:14 PM Sure.. He hated publicity it bought him

Wanted to get back to thinking physics again

BLACK: there are 1000 different things in your processor... wat they do?

me: processors dont have autonomy!

BLACK: do we have?

10:15 PM me: Ya. As Dumbledore said "we have choices."

BLACK: they have their limits & data tables to chose from... so we are... our DB is big though

but nstilll not big enough

10:16 PM we have choices... get it! just 'choices' to choose from

me: they cant choose from the data tables. They are programmed to choose a particular value under certain conditions. Thats why they say no program can produce a perfectly random number.

10:17 PM BLACK: BTW mail me this chat of ours

me: I am thinking of blogging it :D

BLACK: thts bad ;(

10:18 PM there is certain amount of repeatedness in the decision people make on a given conditions... do you agree?

say prob of 0.5 ;(

me: Sure. But still there is free will. Processors dont have it

10:20 PM BLACK: not free will exactly... given a condition, our brain follows its database rules... it gives priorities to the datas stored. for instance, the data einstein said would have a higher priority than the ine given by your friend & it chooses only from the data... wen the data bcms insufficient, we chuck out erroneous o/p, sometimes called as freewill

10:21 PM there is a programmed way our brain works

get data - analyze- o/p

me: That means there's absolute destiny

10:22 PM BLACK: full stop makes a sentence complete ;)

me: so?

BLACK: it wat makes it beautiful too

10:23 PM so there is a point towards everything is moving, in earthly terms.. evolving

me: so u think fate exists!

BLACK: i doubt it... but freewill doesnt exist

me: Thats self contradictory!

BLACK: if you name the design as fate, uh! then it exists

10:24 PM how?

only either f them can live... is that you are gonna say?

me: If there is no free will, then the system should have a pre-determined outcome

BLACK: so?

10:25 PM me: So if you say no to free will, then the system is headed in one direction alone!

After observing her for years i can say for sure that she is the last person you could expect to go in a pointed way! :D

She's a goddamn freak

10:26 PM BLACK: thats where i get too confused... we are given choices, but they are limited.. we are anologous to a programmed PC.

or we want her to move in a freaky manner!!!

10:27 PM me: No.. Its just an observation.

BLACK: or preoccupied to take that she can even travell towards a single end point!!!

me: like observing a baby doing something silly and then you find yourself getting attracted to her doing that same silly thing

10:28 PM BLACK: might be we are observing her just for a brief time span... better if we could ask ants or amoeba!

me: Time and space mean nothing

10:29 PM BLACK: ]still you didnt answer to my question; why most of the men believe that evolution took place jut to create them as the end!!

me: Lets get back. What's your stand?

Because they are stupid.

10:30 PM There is no end of evolution.

We still evolve

BLACK: infinity came, wen we shrinked our limits...

then why scientists are in a hurry that they are the brightest species on earth & tht they can solve the misteries of nature!

10:32 PM me: Solving the mysteries don't make them a special creation. Even if we find the GUT, nature wouldn't give a damn. The law is same for both HIV and Harish.

The discussion continued... Consequence of joblessness. Hail Recession!

Static friction and motion.

This is the first so-called technical post i am posting in this blog. I started this blog to capture my thoughts regularly and register it in cyberspace so that the future-parth might look at it at some other or same part of the world. Hence this is basically like a bunch of letters to my future which is also open to others. Physics is bound to occupy a significant portion in my letters. Feel free to question or criticize any part. Or you might also like to click that red hot button at the top right corner. A wise decision, i'd say.
How do we walk? How does an automobile move?
Though one might be tempted to say its the force and 'power' of the engine, the actual force that propels a vehicle or a cheetah on the trail of a deer is friction. This is because for a system comprising the entire accelerating vehicle, the only external unbalanced force on flat surface is friction. And Newton dictates that only an external force can accelerate a rigid body. Friction propelling a vehicle.!! I got over this stunning fact an year ago-just in my third year BE, after two years of getting awarded an A in Engineering Mechanics- i already mentioned this. Another interesting thing i realized was that you can apply The Three divine laws for any part of a body or object. You are the designer of the system by choosing its boundaries. Just consider the crank shaft as the system and you would see the piston's force is an external one. Consider the engine as a whole and you may safely dispose off the complex interactions as "Ah. They are all silly internal forces. The engine's COM wouldn't budge". Nature sees to that it follows the Laws faithfully in all the systems you might think of defining. There is no preferred system. If you go deep into physics, you would repeatedly encounter this "There is no preferred x". That's one of her main attractions. An inherent impartiality. Of course there are limitations to Newtonian mechanics-quantum and relativity say hi then- yet a large part of the sense experiences are beautifully explained by Newton.


Now i was confronted with another doubt. A force has to do work to increase the Kinetic energy of the body right? If static friction is what is propelling the vehicle, it has to do work. But work cannot be done if the point of application doesn't move. Since it is static friction, there is no movement of the contact point. Hell.! I raised this question as a related one in a Physicsforums thread. Doc Al's explanation and subsequent contemplation led me to an interesting scenario which i am describing here; which is also there in that thread.
Imagine two hemispheres joined together loosely; the upper and lower hemispheres are connected by long strings. So initially the strings are flaccid. Now the conjoined hemispheres- are placed on a surface with a hemispherical cup to accommodate the lower hemisphere. Now an explosive placed inside the sphere is triggered. The lower part cannot move initially and the upper part alone shoots up wholly due to the internal force of the explosive. As for the application of newton's laws goes, the system's COM accelerates due to the normal force from the surface. Since work done requires the movement of the point of application, it is done only by the internal force increasing the KE of the upper hemisphere. Then the moving upper hemisphere pulls the lower one through the string which is also an internal force. This is what happens while walking too, i think.
So work needn't be done by the external force to increase the KE of a body. I was wrong in thinking so. It just needs to exist. When you crouch and jump, the normal force-the only unbalanced external force- merely prevents your legs from going into the surface while allowing-or shall we say remain a spectator to- the upward motion of the part of the body above the knees that results from the work done by the muscles-internal force-. Then after a few moments, your feet also rises up because the part of the body already hoisted up will now pull the feet too which didn't initially agree to join it-Again. internal force-.
Friction acts like a bridge to convert the wheels' rotational energy to the vehicle's total kinetic energy; i.e., allowing internal forces to do work on one part of the system while preventing it from doing the same on the other. This is the critical point and the fruit of my contemplation. The reason for today's happiness. A good night kiss from her.!

Interesting Excerpts-1

In this column, i am going to post interesting excerpts of certain books.
Thinner -Stephen King
The protagonist Billy Halleck, initially obese, begins to lose weight rapidly after a Gypsy curses him for running his car over his daughter. How he manages to find the Gypsy when he finds that things are getting out of control and what happens later are unworthy of mentioning here. Just the usual fiction stuff. Though the book as a whole didn't attract me much, this particular part caught me off-guard. It made me think what life is exactly. I haven't even come remotely close to the answer but who gives a damn for the answer anyway.?! The search is the sexiest part and this excerpt was one of the main reasons that i started the search. I don't think it will ever have an end. Thats the beauty of life.

Now over to SK!
Background: Halleck approaches a physician- Houston, who says his blood tests don't indicate cancer. So what else is the problem, he wonders and asks him..

'You don't understand it,' he said. 'I don't understand it, either. But in this business I see a lot of things I don't understand. A friend of mine who's a neurosurgeon in the city called me in to look at some extraordinary cranial X rays about three years ago. A male student at George Washington University came in to see him because he was having blinding headaches. They sounded like typical migraines to my colleague - the kid fit the personality type to a tee - but you don't want to screw around with that sort of thing because headaches like that are symptomatic of cranial brain tumors even if the patient isn't having phantom olfactory referents -smells like shit, or rotten fruit, or old popcorn, or whatever. So my buddy took a full X-ray series, gave the kid an EEG, sent him to the hospital to have a cerebral axial tomography. Know what they found out?'

Halleck shook his head.

'They found out that the kid, who had stood third in his high-school class and who had been on the dean's list every semester at George Washington University, had almost no brain at all. There was a single twist of cortical tissue running up through the center of his skull - on the X rays my colleague showed me, it looked for all the world like a macrame drape-pull - and that was all. That drape-pull was probably running all of his involuntary functions, everything from breathing and heart rate to orgasm. Just that one rope of brain tissue. The rest of the kid's head was filled with nothing but cerebrospinal fluid. In some way we don't understand, that fluid was doing his thinking. Anyway, he's still excelling in school, still having migraines, and still fitting the migraine personality type. If he doesn't have a heart attack in his twenties or thirties that kills him, they'll start to taper off in his forties.'
Houston pulled the drawer open, took out the cocaine, and took some. He offered it to Halleck. Halleck shook his head.

'Then,' Houston resumed, 'about five years ago I had an old lady come into the office with a lot of pain in her gums. She's died since. If I mentioned the old bitch's name, you'd know it. I took a look in there and Christ Almighty, I couldn't believe it. She'd lost the last of her adult teeth almost ten years before - I mean, this babe was pushing ninety - and here was a bunch of new ones coming up ... five of them in all. No wonder she was having gum pain, Billy! She was growing a third set of teeth. She was teething at eighty-eight years of age.'

'What did you do?' Halleck asked. He was hearing all of this with only a very limited part of his mind - it flowed over him, soothing, like white noise, like Muzak floating down from the ceiling in a discount department store. Most of his mind was still dealing with relief - surely Houston's cocaine must be a poor drug indeed compared to the relief he was feeling. Halleck thought briefly of the old Gypsy with the rotten nose, but the image had lost its darkish, oblique power.

'What did I do?' Houston was asking. 'Christ, what could I do? I wrote her a prescription for a drug that's really nothing more than a high-powered form of Num-Zit, that stuff you put on a baby's gums when it starts to teethe. Before she died, she got three more in - two molars and a canine.

'I've seen other stuff, too, a lot of it. Every doctor sees weird shit he can't explain. But enough of Ripley's Believe It Or Not. The fact is, we don't understand very goddamn much about the human metabolism. There are guys like Duncan Hopley ... You know Dunc?'
Halleck nodded. Fairview's chief of police, rouster of Gypsies, who looked like a bush-league Clint Eastwood.

'He eats like every meal was his last one,' Houston said. 'Holy Moses, I never seen such a bear for chow. But his weight sticks right around one-seventy, and because he's six feet tall, that makes him just about right. He's got a souped-up metabolism; he's burning the calories off at twice the pace of, let's say, Yard Stevens.'

Halleck nodded. Yard Stevens owned and operated Heads Up, Fairview's only barber shop. He went maybe three hundred pounds. You looked at him and wondered if his wife tied his shoelaces.

'Yard is roughly the same height as Duncan Hopley,' Houston said, 'but the times I've seen him at lunch, he's just picking at his food. Maybe he's a big closet eater. Could be. But I'd guess not. He's got a hungry face, you know what I mean?'
Billy smiled a little and nodded. He knew. Yard Stevens looked, in his mother's phrase, 'like his food wasn't doing him any good.'

'I'll tell you something else, too - although I s'pose it's tales out of school. Both of those men smoke. Yard Stevens claims a pack of Marlboro Lights a day, which means he probably smokes a pack and a half, maybe two. Duncan claims he smokes two packs of Camels a day, which could mean he's doing three, three and a half. I mean, did you ever see Duncan Hopley without a cigarette in his mouth or in his hand?'
Billy thought about it and shook his head. Meanwhile; Houston had helped himself to another blast. 'Gah, that's enough of that,' he said, and slammed the drawer shut with authority.

'Anyway, there's Yard doing a pack and a half of low-tar cigarettes a day, and there's Duncan doing three packs of black lungers every day - maybe more. But the one who's really inviting lung cancer to come in and eat him up is Yard Stevens. Why? Because his metabolism sucks, and metabolic rate is somehow linked to cancer.

'You have doctors who claim that we can cure cancer when we crack the genetic code. Some kinds of cancer, maybe. But it's never going to be cured completely until we understand metabolism. Which brings us back to Billy Halleck, the Incredible Shrinking Man. Or maybe the Incredible Mass-Reducing Man would be better. Not Mass-Producing; Mass-Reducing.' Houston laughed a strange and rather stupid whinnying laugh, and Billy thought: If that's what coke does to you, maybe I'll stick to Ring-Dings.

'You don't know why I'm losing weight.'

'Nope.' Houston seemed pleased by the fact